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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

Brezina Interview
http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=interviews&id=2011brezina


Parts about Plush


....
Evan deserved it, he skated clean. I still think that an Olympic champion should have quad in the program. That's what makes men's competition the men's competition. Also Zhenya made some mistakes in the free skate, and he missed one combination, that's why he probably lost (Plushenko had three combinations of two jumps each while by rules he could add the third jump in one of them which could give him needed points to win).

....

If you look at the first ten at Worlds, they had at least one quad in the program, and the rest of program was skated mostly clean. I don't know how Evan's condition is right now but for a couple of years I didn't see him doing quads. It will be really hard for him to compete with Patrick Chan or Daisuke Takahashi, who are good skaters and also do quads.

I respect Brezina as a skater, and I very much appreciate his respect for Evgeni, and especially also as his attitude toward quads.

Maybe it's just me, though, but since "clean" was mentioned, sometimes it does seem to me that people tend to use different definitions of "clean" when it comes to Evgeni and other skaters...I don't mean what Brezina said here, actually, just that it somehow reminds me of something more general I've seen from other people: when it comes to Vancouver they would say "but Lysacek skated clean" (as if Evgeni didn't, by any other skater's standards), but when it comes to say Chan with two or three falls (sorry to mention him here, but it's the most, er, obvious example) it suddenly becomes the opposite argument of "but his program was more difficult"....
by whitebamboo
05 Jan 2012, 03:32
 
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Re: Ледовые шоу(общая информация) || Shows News

I am not happy with that poster :plush34:
-------------------------------------------------



Agreed. This is not recent photo of Plushy and did not show the full beauty of him :hi_hi_hi: Milan's one is much better :-)

I think so, too. Also maybe it's just me, but the PS looks a bit unnatural to my eyes; the coloring of his form doesn't seem to quite fit with the background.

But the Milan poster (the one on the previous page, for the recent show)--one of the girls at our Chinese forum pointed out that he seems to be wearing an ice skate on his right foot, but not on the left ::yaz-yk: :plush42:
by whitebamboo
11 Jan 2012, 18:44
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

Ah, the North American press... :ps_ih: Is it just me or has the Canadian press gotten much worse than the American press lately? I suppose it's because there aren't any really outstanding American male skaters right now, and there is Chan...



Evgeny Plushenko’s special requests continue to multiply.


Yes, start the article right off with their usual little tricks, as if people can't tell....What other "special request" has Plushy had before? If they're talking about the restoration of eligibility...Don't even get me started. Just don't. It's not as if there hadn't been plenty of "special requests" from the Canadian Federation, but then again, what would be the NA press be without double standards? (Yes, I know this may be a generalization. And I stand behind it.)


Bring him on, Chan says. Last week, Chan said that he was “really excited” to face Plushenko again. “I’ve always looked up to him since I’ve been skating,” Chan said. “I used to watch him at the Grand Prix and world championships, and he was exciting to watch. To be on the same ice again since the Vancouver Olympics would be very exciting.

“I would like to compete against him and see what judges would have to say and what they think between the two of us.”


Ah, so it was exciting to compete with someone so "old and outdated", whose choreograph was only to be laughed at, at Vancouver? :-) Well, I am glad that it was shown that sometimes an "out-of-fashion" dinosaur can actually change the "fashion" and direction of skating, perhaps.

One thing I did notice, though, is that what Chan says he's interested in is "what judges think" about the two of them, and nothing about how they might actually perform...(But then again, what the judges think about you in general is more important nowadays, I suppose.)


After Plushenko won his ninth national title last month, coach Alexei Mishin was coy about how they were going to surmount the problem of the minimum score. But the solution was no real secret. He had to petition the ISU. The ISU “exceptionally agreed.” And the decision was a no-brainer. Plushenko brings an excitement to any event he enters.


Well, good to see they admitted that. But if so, then why is allowing Plushy to compete at Euros such a "favor"?


The ISU bowed to his special request for reinstatement in July of 2011, but Plushenko was unable to take part in international competitions this year because of injury.


The usage of the word "bowed" is a nice touch. As if the whole disqualification business had any kind of legitimacy at all to start with. And as if Evgeni brought some kind of "power" or "pressure" to force the ISU to restore him, which is just the farthest from the truth.


Plushenko admits he’s still a work in progress. He said he does not fear defeat this year. His ultimate goal is the Sochi Olympics, where the results could be quite different from Vancouver.


Okay, maybe this one is reading a bit hard, but I'm wondering if the use of the word "where" is a nice touch, too. (Kind of reminds me of how Evan Lysacek was repeating how he "wouldn't be welcomed" at Sochi, four years in advance....)


He is human, after all.


Oh, well, gosh.

No, y'know what, their small-minded condescension, masked behind a very thin veneer of "objectivity", annoys me even more than their outright attacks. I want to throw in many expletives here, to be honest, but I'll hold myself back...

(Edit: Sorry, it seems I'm getting kind of belligerent lately....But I really just cannot stand this kind of nonsense from the NA press.)
by whitebamboo
18 Jan 2012, 13:17
 
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Re: Чемпионат Европы 2012 || European Championships 2012



.....

-- В конце программы создалось ощущение, что вам не хватило «физики».

-- Да. Хорошо, признаюсь вам, -- вздыхает Плющенко. -- Два дня назад на тренировке при исполнении четверного я сильно дернул мышцу на спине. :plush27: Пришлось пройти курс лечения. Да и сейчас я одел шарф не потому что хочу быть модным, а оттого что просто не могу повернуть шею. Даже стоял вопрос выступать мне в Шеффилде или нет.



Oh my god. :plush47: :plush47: :plush47:

To be honest, I don't care how Evgeni places at this Euros at this point...I just want it to be done with so that he can please, please get better...
by whitebamboo
24 Jan 2012, 02:58
 
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Re: Чемпионат Европы 2012 || European Championships 2012

:plush47: :plush47: :plush47: :plush47:

Frankly, I'm feeling terrified now, yet what can be said? Evgeni's courage and strength is utterly beyond my understanding.

All I hope is that he recovers completely and soon.

A huge THANK YOU to all you girls who are there supporting him now.
by whitebamboo
26 Jan 2012, 02:50
 
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Re: Чемпионат Европы 2012 || European Championships 2012

I‘ve had to work all morning, and I couldn't even watch...(Just as well since I was too terrified anyway) And I finally got online with shaking hands just a little while ago....

I don't know what to say anymore. I don't know how he did it. I simply don't. I think I'm going to fall to my knees.

Now go get those operations and take care of yourself and get better, Evgeni!

P. S. I remember now that in his book, he said that he would "talk" to the ice, and sometimes the ice talked back...I remember yesterday seeing Dimi's post that he jumped that 4-3 in practice, and then stood in the middle of the ice quietly, pensive...I was scared at the moment because I imagined he was thinking about going for the quad in the LP and I was terrified because frankly I was convinced there was no way he could skate clean in his condition if he goes for the quad--and now...I was a doubting Thomas and I am properly ashamed and I never imagined I would be so happy to feel such shame. But I still don't know how he did it. I think yesterday when he was standing there he must've been talking to the ice and the ice must have said something to him.

Sorry I'm kind of incoherent now.
by whitebamboo
29 Jan 2012, 01:21
 
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by whitebamboo
04 Feb 2012, 20:59
 
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by whitebamboo
05 Feb 2012, 05:46
 
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Re: Статьи о катании || Articles about skating

Thanks for the Lakernik interview, Cekoni! I found a lot of the things he said interesting. I am curious as to what will happen with the rules at this summer's ISU congress.

I agree that one can say that good skating skills are the basics upon which everything else is built, so that it's hard to do other things well without it. However, although I am not an expert, I also think that skating skills should not equal everything--it is the "basic" skill, as Lakernik said. After all, skating skill is numerically just one category among the five PCS scores under the current system, though other components certainly need good skating skills as well. But just having good skating skills--and playing to that strength by showing it off, which is perfectly fine--should not mean automatic high scores in the other PCS components as well, for instance in IN and PE. (Also, there are different styles of "good" skating skills.)
by whitebamboo
13 Feb 2012, 23:26
 
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Re: Статьи о катании || Articles about skating




10 YEAR AFTER SALT LAKE, SKATING A SHADOW OF SELF
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gI25eY0tqnSE28V6x5ezIsEeqrEQ?docId=2944aa1df0ea40c2a5bd33d3df72b0fa


Thanks so much for this article! :plush39: :plush39: I am not an expert, but I still want to say that I agree very much with some parts of it, and maybe not other parts so much.


Judging shenanigans have always been skating's dirty little secret. But it was one thing to look at scores and try to guess what countries were conniving and which judges were swapping marks, quite another to have it confirmed as it was in Salt Lake.
Russia's Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze initially won the pairs gold over Canada's Jamie Sale and David Pelletier by the slightest of margins, despite Sikharulidze stepping out of a double axel. But judge Marie-Reine Le Gougne tearfully told her fellow judges afterward that she had been pressured by French federation president Didier Gailhaguet to put the Russians first.
....


I have to confess that when people talk about the causes of the COP system in Salt Lake City, something always bothers me a little, because to my eyes, what happened at Salt Lake City had nothing whatsoever to do with the scoring system, and nothing to do with subjectivity. It had to do with ethics and politics, which no change of scoring is ever going to fix. I do agree that the new system may be (at least in some ways) less subjective, but I don't think it is more fair. There are plenty of controversial judging decisions under the COP system, and plenty of ways in which the COP system can be manipulated to get the "desired" results. One difference, though, is that it's now harder for general fans to question the results and easier for "experts" to intimidate others by saying "but you don't understand this and that component of the scoring", especially when it comes to the PCS.


"It's surreal that it happened to us. I never thought anything like that — big stories happen to others, I've never been involved in such a thing," Pelletier said. "We were just puppets in a show. I never took it personal (hmmm...rly??). We just happened to be in the wrong place at the right time. Or the right place at the wrong time, I don't know."


And why do we have to again hear S/P's point of view again, as if they were the only human beings whose lives were affected....If they claim to be "objective", they could have gotten what Elena and Anton had to say, too.


Le Gougne later recanted, but the damage was done. Scott Hamilton's howl of protest on the NBC broadcast could be heard clear across the country


I am glad the article mentioned the recant, that's a lot more than what you can say about most North American articles on the matter. And I like the fact that on some level it pointed out an important factor--the power of the NA media . (Yes, I know I harp on the NA media a lot, but I believe it.)


Figure skating will always be a subjective sport because there is no clock to race, no finish line to cross ahead of an opponent. But skating had to find a way to bring more objectivity — more transparency — to its judging, Cinquanta said.


And more transparency is why the names and countries of the judges are now secret. LOL


And the judging system has revolutionized ice dancing, once so corrupt medals may as well have been handed out before the event started. North American ice dancers, who once had little hope of doing more than cracking the top 10, now dominate the sport. Canada's Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir are the reigning Olympic champions, while Meryl Davis and Charlie White last year became the first Americans to win a world dance title.

Um, what on earth does this mean? That the non-North American ice dancers who won before the COP system did so due to corruption? :plush43: I like V/M and love D/W, but if North American ice dancers are now winning, I sure would hope it is because they actually got better.


But critics say the current system has flaws, as well.
There is room to manipulate marks or prop skaters up through the component scores, largely still a matter of personal opinion even with established criteria to judge the individual components. A judge with a music background, for example, may view a skater's interpretation of "Tosca" very differently than someone without, and it's hard to challenge their interpretations.


Frankly, I don't have much confidence about how well judges can appreciate artistic depth, musical background or no. And most of the things I have heard from judges and other arbiters of what constitute "interpretation" and "good choreography" add nothing to that confidence.


Another criticism is that the points system doesn't penalize mistakes enough. Reigning world champion Patrick Chan had to put both hands down on a quadruple toe loop in the short program at Four Continents last Thursday, but it wasn't counted as a fall so he didn't receive a one-point deduction off his total score. He did get the maximum negative execution scores for the element, but the 7.30 points he received for the quad were still a point higher than Ross Miner got for a clean triple flip.


I agree with this. But the argument about how Chan didn't receive the 1-point deduction is logically flawed, given that others skaters who made the same or similar mistakes would get the deduction, as examples showed. (The technical expert who made the call was Canadian, by the way.) This particular example, in my humble opinion, is more about Chan than about the system--to be convincing, one should also look at how other skaters who fell one, two or three times fared. But I do agree that maybe one should reconsider how much deduction is appropriate for falls, And actually, I think by keeping the point values for fallen quads high, the ISU is in fact penalizing the skaters who actually can jump--and land--quads.

(By the way, once on LJ I mentioned this point to the NA expert Tony Wheeler (in connection with Chan), and asked his opinion about it. I am afraid that his reply (it wasn't an answer) did not impress me in its logic or lack thereof. He was agreeing with many that Chan shouldn't have won when he fell three times in one program, but if I recall correctly, he also refused to acknowledge there was anything arguable about Chan's PCS or GOEs, but rather pinned most of the problem on the quad being somehow overvalued, and even to some extent (as I read it) blamed Plushenko and his supporters for causing Chan's victories! :ps_ih: )


"To get more points, the skaters execute elements beyond their capabilities. As a consequence, the programs are filled with errors and falls which, of course, damage the general presentation," Sonia Bianchetti, a former Olympic-level judge and the first woman elected to an ISU office, said in an email. "Is it better to see a beautiful program, with a good choreography, skated to the music with good speed and flow and maybe an easier jump or jump combination, less-intricate footwork or more simple spins? Or rather programs with two or three falls on quads or triple-triple combinations, with travelled, slow and ugly spins or step sequences?
"To make the sport too difficult and demanding means that in a field of 30 skaters, let's say, maybe only a couple can do a decent program. The rest of the event is a falling contest," she added. "Is this good for our sport?"


I agree with this...well, only to some extent. Maybe it is true that right now, the current technical demands are making it too difficult to skate a clean program--so it's a matter of finding the right level. But personally, I don't want to ever see the "direction" of figure skating to go back to what it was before Vancouver, when the quad was so devalued in favor of other things like transitions. Evgeni fought so hard against that, at such a cost to himself. As Evgeni and Mishin have always said, figure skating is both sport and art, and it needs to go forward. It needs people willing to take risks. And the word "risk" is exactly what it means--rewarded above the safe route when it succeeds, and accept the losses when it doesn't.

I was told that Sonia Bianchetti was a big proponent of Lysacek over Plushenko at Vancouver, so maybe I'm also a bit influenced by that. But what she's saying here is somewhat consistent with that, for which I give her credit. What bothers me the most--I probably have gone on about this before--are the people who argue "but Lysacek skated clean" when it comes to Vancouver, as if they could point to a fall or step-out or hand-down on Evgeni's part, but then when it comes to Chan falling, they turn right around and say "but his program is more difficult". I find this kind of double standards to be deeply hypocritical.

Still, I say "somewhat", because although I understand what anyone considers "beautiful" is very subjective, I don't believe that the things she mentioned here are really enough to make a "beautiful" program. She talks about "good choreography", which is actually a phrase I personally don't like, as a total non-expert of course, because it is far too vague, and mixes together technical and aesthetic issues, which are unrelated and sometimes contradictory toward each other. (And from the way skaters are scored on CH, as far as I can tell the most nearly consistent criterion seems to be about how close the choreography follows the received wisdom as proclaimed by Lori Nichol, and also maybe about who the choreographer is. But even that is not an absolute.) She talks about "skate to the music", which...well, shouldn't that be a basic requirement? And then right after, "good speed and flow", which in some ways already contradicted the previous phrase about "to the music", since not all music are about speed. If you want to fit the music, then yes, maybe sometimes you have to slow a bit. It seems to me to be a rather narrow idea of what "beautiful" means, and no idea at all of what "art" means. Because I'll go out on a limb here: to me personally, I don't even think that even "beautiful", in what sense I think she means here, is always quite enough for "art". To me, what is truly beautiful and artistic also has to express something, something connected to one's self and also worth expressing, instead of being merely eye-pleasing. I am a Plushenko fan so I am obviously and utterly subjective, but I believe this is something Evgeni has, to a far, far greater extent than any other skater I can think of, and this is why, as another poster have said, there is something "supernatual" about his beauty on ice. Maybe this is a far too unrealistic standard in skating, because (again, in my own non-expert and subjective opinion) I don't think many current skaters are capable of this, but it is something special and should be rewarded. I also hope that how well the program actually serves this gets considered, and that there is a broader view of what constitutes a "good" program. (I know it can be argued that this is again too subjective for scoring, but then what are the PE and IN scores for, anyway?)

(I also noticed that she mentioned simplifying jumps, step sequences, spins--but I honestly want to ask her, why not transitions?)


....
That complexity, in a sport once known for its simple beauty, coupled with the lack of a female American star, has been blamed by many for the drop in interest in skating in the U.S.



Although I live here, I have to say that sorry, the U. S. isn't the world. People have said that mainstream Americans really can only truly accept nice middle-class girls as figure skaters, but those cultural stereotypes are, in the end, America's problem and its loss. Although the market for figure skating has shrunk in North America, I believe it is growing in other parts of the world, such as Asia.

And if we want to talk about appealing to the general audience--from the way many, many people reacted to the results of Vancouver--I think the general audience doesn't particularly accept the whole "perfect triple+transitions are better than quad" argument either (with caveats about how "perfect" Lysacek's triples actually were, of course). As audiences for an Olympic sport, I think people generally want to see the pushing of boundaries. They want to see heroes . Evgeni, despite how the NA media portrayed him, is a hero. This is one of his--many, many--appeals, on and off the ice.
by whitebamboo
16 Feb 2012, 23:22
 
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Re: Женя “вне льда” (cтатьи,фото,видео)|| Evgeni OFF the ice

The watch look really nice!

I like the "blue theme" of the dinner too. It really goes well with the watch itself. (and of course Evgeni's eyes).
by whitebamboo
22 Feb 2012, 15:53
 
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Re: Чемпионат Европы 2012 || European Championships 2012

After the European Championships, 嗷嗷嗷, who is a very knowledgeable fan at Plushy's Chinese fan club (his "tieba"), wrote a great technical element-by-element analysis of his SP and LP performances at the Euros. With her kind permission and help, I have translated it it to English, since I found it both really wonderful to read, and very helpful as well. I hope people here find it enjoyable!


Plushy's 2012 Euros Programs: a Technical Analysis
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1392742043
by 嗷嗷嗷

Frankly, I was close to tears watching Plushy's free skate at the Euros. There were so many feelings....Well, I won't say much about it now, since I imagine all Plushy fans have felt all those different feelings. I'll just get down to analyzing the programs....

Technical elements, European Championships:

SP:

1. 3Lz+3T: It's been a long time since we've seen Plushy do this combination jump, since usually he adds the 3T after his 4T or 3A. This is not a difficult element for him, although he had some problems with his 3Lz earlier this season. This combination jump was solidly executed: Plushy used the preceding steps that he usually uses for the solo 3Lz in his SP, the rhythm of the combination was good. The jumps were poised and steady, and both the height and the distance were quite nice.

2. 3A: One of Plushy's signature jumps. If it weren't for the fact that a solo axel jump is required in the SP, I'd have said that his 3A+3T combination would have been more consistent than any other triple jump followed by a 3T. This particular 3A is another example of his usual high quality, with an easy and powerful take-off, great height, superb flow, and a perfectly clean landing.

3. 3Lo with steps entrance: The execution of this was normal, except for a slight unsteadiness upon the landing, and everything else was good.

4. Sit spin with change of foot, level 3: This had a difficult variation with free leg to the side before the foot change, 8 revolutions, and a difficult variation with the free leg in front after the foot change. It's seems that he originally wanted to do the foot change with a jump, but didn't quite make it, so the spin only satisfied three of the level features. Actually, this sit spin is better than I had expected. Plushy learned new spin positions this season: it is truly admirable that at his age, he is still trying hard to adjust himself to the new rules. This particular sit spin was well-centered and fairly fast, with a slight decrease in speed toward the end, and the positions were well-sustained.

5. Flying camel spin, level 3: with a difficult variation of flying entrance, 8 revolutions in camel spin position, and the doughnut spin as a difficult variation. There was supposed to be also a back catch-foot position, which would have been another difficult variation, but he didn't manage to hold this for more than one revolution. If' he'd held it for 2 or more revolutions, this would have become a level 4 spin. Because the camel spin has the largest radius among all spin positions, it is by necessity the slowest. For the doughnut spin, although his flexibility is no longer comparable to what it was in the past, the requirement is satisfied as long as the position is there. Overall, the speed and positions of this spin were good, but the center of gravity was not quite perfectly maintained.

6. Straight-line footwork sequence, level 3: Generally speaking, Plushy has the ability to do level 4 footwork sequences, but he can also complete level 3 sequences without expending too much energy and physical stamina, so this is a better deal for him. There is absolutely no problem rating this particular sequence at level 3: it contained a rich variety of different types of turns and steps, the changes of directions were balanced, and the edge usage was very crisp and clean. The movements fitted the music superbly, and the expression of emotions was strong and full.

7. Combination spin with change of foot, level 3: This had an edge change before the change of foot, a difficult variation with the free leg in front, and three basic positions both before and after the foot change. This spin was well-centered and good positions. The speed was good before the foot change, and slightly slower after, which could be due to stamina issues, as this was the last element in the program.


LP:

1. 4T: I really never expected that he would go for the quad anyway....I don't know what to say. This was a great quad, 3 preceding strokes for acceleration, a powerful and unhesitant take-off, superior height and distance. At the landing, there was a tiny bit of shakiness, but it was instantly controlled, and there was beautiful extension upon the exit.

2. 3A: No need to say more, executed with superior quality as always. I think he jumps 3As with as much ease and aplomb as many other skaters jump 2As.

3. 3Lo: This was a better 3Lo than the one in the SP, with the same take-off, but the air position, as well as the steadiness and flow of the landing and the exit were all better.

4. 3A+3T: A super dazzling jump, with two very difficult moves for the entrance: a rocker turn followed by a counter turn. The 3A itself was high and light as a feather, and the rhythm of the combination was flawless. He controlled his air position and center of gravity like a cat: graceful and flowing. If it weren't for a slight decrease in the height of the second jump, this would have been a perfect jump deserving of +3 GOE.

5. Flying sit spin, level 4: This has a difficult variation of flying entry, a difficult variation with the free leg to the side, 8 revolutions, another difficult variation with the free leg to the back: four level features in all. This was a pretty good spin, very well-centered, with well-maintained positions and fast speed: so the whole spin was of of a high quality.

6. 3Lz+2T+2Lo: With preceding steps. The first jump was nice, although the landing was not perfect. However, he had it under control right away, so it did not affect the two less difficult jumps that followed. Actually, it is not usual to see a 322 combination jump from Plushy, in fact it was pretty much unseen before this season. This one is basically normal.

7. 3Lz: Also with preceding steps, and decent height and distance. The landing still had a small wobble, with the center of gravity a little too much forward. It seems that there were some small problems with all the 3Lzs this season, except for the one in the Euros SP.

8. Circular footwork sequence, level 3: Like the footwork sequence in the SP, here he did not do the footwork on one foot only over a long-distance, as the new rules now use as a level feature, but still used the kind of choreography similar as in the Olympic season, in order to satisfy the requirements needed for level 3 footwork--requirements on the types, directions and quantity of turns and steps. At the same time, he used his upper body well. There was also high-quality edge usage, and a good match to the music.

9: 3S+2A jump sequence: This season was the first time we saw a 3S+2A jump sequence from Plushy. This one had good rhythm. The first jump was quite nice and of high quality; the landing of the second jump wasn't the best, as the toe pick scratched the ice.

10. Camel spin, level 4: With entrance on an back edge, 8 revolutions in the camel spin position, a doughnut spin difficult variation, and a back catch-foot difficult variation: four level features in all. I can only say that this spin is well-centered, with average speed, and the positions were maintained well though not with perfect ease.

11. Straight-line footwork sequence: This sequence is un-levelled, so the details of the footwork here are not hugely complicated. Instead, the focus was on the speed and power, with small jumps woven in and strong body movements, so that the entire sequence was passionate and extremely expressive.

12. 2A: A normal 2A. As the final jump in the program, it was performed effortlessly, and was of high quality.

13. Combination spin with change of foot, level 3: This had the same choreography as the change foot combination spin in the SP, and the quality of execution was similar, too.

Overall, at the Euros Plushy completed the technical elements better than he did at the Russian Nationals. The 4T at the Euros is cleaner and better than both of the 4Ts at the Russian nationals. He landed all of his 3Lzs smoothly here, whereas there were problems with the ones at RN. The 3S+2A jump sequence, too, was improved over the RN one in terms of rhythm. Also, his speed was faster at the Euros, the programs flowed well, and the performances were just generally better.


PCS:

I won't discuss the SP and the LP separately here. After all, when it comes to something like PCS, I really am completely uncertain that I'm able to understand it according to the so-called rules, LOL

SS: Many people have analyzed Plushys skating skills before. I can only say that this is absolutely one of Plushy's strengths. It has always been so, and is so now. Plushy's skating style is somewhat similar to that of Mao Asada, efficient and well-considered in how he uses the edges. The speed and forcefulness may not appear so strong, rather, there is simply a feeling of "floating" on ice. It's rare to see Plushy constantly doing crossovers: even when he's jumping 4Ts and 3As, usually he only takes 3 or 4 strokes to get to the speed he needs, and he is effective at maintaining his speed. Further, Plushy also does well in ice coverage, balance of directions, balance of edge usage and the proportion of one-foot gliding.

TR: Both of the programs this season are much improved over the programs of the Olympic season in this aspect. Basically, except for the 4T, before every jump there was either a difficult entry or a tight transition from another technical element, instead of the basic crossover then take-off. There was also a rich variety of transitions between the technical elements, using turns, steps, free skating movements or choreography movements. Of course, Plushy's transitions still aren't "packed full", one reason for this is possibly because of stamina considerations, and another reason, in my personal opinion, is a matter of style. Plushy is a skater whose strength is in performance, and he needs to use a certain amount of time and movements for the performance, instead of continuously doing transitions with his feet.

CH: Plushy used new choreographers this season, and one can see improvements in the handling of the new rules. Perhaps due to age, or perhaps due to habit, the SP still had all three jumps at the start, and there were only three jumps in the second half of the free skate, but there really isn't anything wrong with that. The most important thing is that the programs appear to flow much better, without the sense of being arbitrarily divided into discrete parts, with each part being one technical element from start to end, and then the next part begins. Another thing worth mentioning is the choreography of the spins. Given how stringent the changes in the new rules are with respect to all aspects of spins, the choreography brought all of of Plushy's abilities to full play, with two level 4 spins and one level 3 spin--this is already very difficult. In particular, there were two new positions, ones that he had never done before, in the sit spin.

IN and PE: I am putting these two together because these are the two most subjective standards. As a Plushy fan, I am not asking myself to make any "fair or objective"comments, nor is it possible for me to do so. I only want to praise. I don't think anyone will disagree that Plushy's interpretation and expression of music is at the very top among current male singles skaters. The music for the short program is Yanni's "Storm", arranged and performed by Edvin Marton. To be honest, I am not familiar with this music, but looking at the expression of each of Plushy's physical movements, before and after the start of the straight-line footwork sequence--and to an even greater degree of detail, in the first and second halves of the straight-line footwork sequence--one sees that they are completely different. As the style and rhythm of the music changes, the style, rhythm, mood, force of Plushy's movements also change constantly, in close accordance with the music.

For the LP, his music is Tango de Roxanne from Moulin Rouge, a piece of music that many skaters have used before. Among these, a favorite is the version by Yuna Kim, a version that I have saved on my computer and watched many times. So when this familiar music first began, I thought I would be comparing the two versions, which one would be the greater "classic". But as Plushy moved on the ice, the only thing left in my eyes and my heart is him. I no longer thought of anything Yuna did, never mind comparisons. By the last moments of the program, I was nearly in tears. His flawless interpretation makes it impossible to think of anything, about anyone else. I don't want to say which one is better, I can only say that in the end, Plushenko is the one that my heart loves. Plushy is very much suited to the tango: if I remember correctly he has skated three programs to tangos: Tango and Flamenco from 2004, Tango Amore from 2010, and Tango de Roxanne from Moulin Rouge from this season. Each of them has a different feeling: heroic, bright, sexy, seductive, mercurial, dignified, dominant, and even more. Can you say which one is the mood that the tango "should" possess? After watching his performance, the answer becomes: all of them. This is Plushy's own performance style, no restrictions, no copying from any classic, every movement full of expression, every movement evoking delight and love. The ice is his stage, and he is the king on ice.

I let out a breath of relief after learning the news that Plushy will skip the Worlds for medical treatment. My first wish is for him to be healthy, and only then--that he brings us more wonderful programs. He no longer has anything to prove. From the past to the present, he was and is always the best.


A huge thanks to 嗷嗷嗷! :plush39: :plush39: :plush39:
by whitebamboo
13 Mar 2012, 19:53
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

Canadians, Americans and Japanese have treated this competition more seriously.

Okay.

I really, really, really love you, Plushy, but if this is what he really said and not a translation error, then I am very disappointed in him. :plush38:

I don't think anyone could accuse the Russians of not taking this competition seriously. Especially Artur. You only had to look at his face to know that he knew EXACTLY what was on the line, EXACTLY what was expected of him, and he knew that he didn't do a good enough job. I hope Artur didn't read this or hear of this. To hear Plushy say that he didn't take Worlds seriously enough would be crushing. :ny_tik:

Artur looked like he was on the verge of tears after his free skate. I think he was taking it plenty serious, Plush. :ne_vi_del:

I am sure that Artur was trying hard, but whether for external or internal reasons, the level of preparation turned out not to be enough. (and that, I think, included levels of mental preparedness.) Evgeni was never saying that he expected Artur to medal or anything like that, and in one of the interviews before the Worlds, he was hinting that Artur was maybe not quite in the best condition. Of course, Evgeni's himself had been away from the ice for a while and might not even have had all the information, but I myself somehow got the sense that he was a little bit cautious about how Artur will do at this Worlds then. Still, what happened must have been truly disappointing to him, precisely because he cares so much about Artur.

As for being "nice", again maybe it's just me, but to be honest when it comes to assessing on-ice performances, "niceness" in the surface sense, should, frankly, not be the first priority. And I don't see anything Evgeni said here as specifically "not nice" or "mean". Perhaps he could have softened it somewhat, but from what I've seen, other Russian commentators have generally speaking been much more blunt.
by whitebamboo
04 Apr 2012, 21:17
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

(sorry, I'm having trouble editing, so I'll go on a little more here.)

I do have to say that I was a little surprised myself to read this particular commentary by Evgeni, because this is actually the first time I can recall that he's been critical of the performance of any Russian skater in recent years. Especially with Artur. For so many years, Evgeni has constantly praised, encouraged, supported, helped, and been an older brother to him, that frankly, I think he's earned the right to be a bit "harsh" this once. And I think Artur understand him well enough not to take it in any way where it was not intended.

I know this must be a tough time for Artur, but the important thing is for him to do better next time. They are already saying that Evgeni is expected to "save Russia" next year, but the truth is, next year Evgeni will be 30. And even if in the next two seasons, Evgeni defied age, injuries, everything else, what will happen to Russian men's skating after 2014? I know it would be unfair to Artur to expect him to fill Evgeni's shoes or carry Evgeni's burden, but he really is the most promising Russian male singles skater since Evgeni, and it would be disappointing--just for his own sake and nothing else--to not perform to the level allowed by his talent and abilities.

Back in 2000, Evgeni also had a bad Worlds at Nice (though he was two years younger than Artur is now, and "bad" for him meant fourth), but that defeat did not crush him. Just the opposite, it seemed to have been a transformative experience. The level of his skating increased, and in 2001, he did not loss a single competition. I hope that with Artur, this will ultimately be an experience that will help him improve, too.
by whitebamboo
04 Apr 2012, 22:01
 
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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

I agree that next year's Worlds is going to be important for Plushy, as it is the year before Sochi. But to be honest, for myself I don't even quite want to worry about that yet. Personally, I just hope to see him get through next season's competitions one at a time, and skate well and not get injured again. This season, though with only two competitions, turned out to be successful in the end, but also so difficult. Next season he'll be another year older, and though I pray and hope that his physical condition--in terms of injuries--will be A LOT better than this season, but I still don't want to see Russian officials and media turn around so swiftly and start to take him for granted again.

(As for there being "no glory" in winning the Europeans, I rather doubt that Plushy himself will agree about that... :-): )
by whitebamboo
21 Apr 2012, 01:24
 
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Re: Мужчины || Men

Well, I'm going to prevent myself from talking about Chan in general, only that whenever I see this sort of thing, it always reminds me of how I really, really resent people actually calling Evgeni "arrogant" for all those nonsensical reasons they invent out of their own arrogance and then project onto him. :ps_ih:
by whitebamboo
22 Apr 2012, 19:57
 
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

I am sorry, but I am not sure why people are so disappointed and upset about the fact that Camerlengo has worked 4 hours with Evgeni and his team so far? I guess, so far we only have the news reports, but looking at what Mishin actually said:


"We were working for two hours yesterday. Today we are going to spend together two hours more and after that Camerlengo will return to Italy. We find the whole process very exciting."


If the work with Camerlengo is going badly or if they've decided to stop working with him, I hardly think Mishin will put it this way. So, what's the problem?

But nevertheless, I have to say that personally for me, if Evgeni and his team, after serious work with Camerlengo, decided it is not for them, I would absolutely have no problem with it. I remember being worried last year about his programs (and writing a bunch of long-winded posts about the matter, lol), but after this past season, frankly I am ashamed that I ever doubted Evgeni and his team about these things. He tried many different things before last season, and he and his team made decisions in the end. I would have loved the Jewish Melodies LP that Zhulin choreographed for him, had he decided to use it, and I am really curious about the program that Stephane choreographed last summer, but the Moulin Rouge and Storm programs were also brilliant, and it was obvious that they fitted him well. And by the way, I also think they were very different from Evgeni's previous programs in many ways ( I can go on these two programs at length). And even if he didn't use Zhulin's and Lambiel's programs per se, I am certain that just having worked with them is helpful and by no means "wasted". (Also, people were complaining about how he continues to work with Edvin and David, which--if I may be frank--seems to me to be based on the fallacious assumption that they themselves are always the same and cannot change.)

In the end, I guess, there are many, many different things I would have loved to see Evgeni try--and that is just from the selfish vantage point of the viewer, because he is an amazing artist and not just any skater. But obviously he cannot do them all. I would have loved it if he were immortal and would skate one hundred more season, with two hundred more programs in two hundred different styles by different choreographers, but that is not the case. He has two more seasons left. So he and his team have to make choices, and if one thing doesnt' fit, one will have to try something else. That's the way artists work.

Well, in any case, none of the above rant actually applies right now. To be completely honest, I was already a bit curious when the news about Camerlengo first came out, because I wasn't certain if Evgeni had already picked the music and the image. From the way he talked about this before, I kind of got the impression that he hadn't, and that he would let Camerlengo choose. And, well, I think Evgeni needs to feel a connection to, and be convinced about the music before he would decide to skate it for competition. So for myself, I'll be happy if at the end, he feels that there is something from Camerlengo that is useful to him, which I am certain will be the case.
by whitebamboo
27 Apr 2012, 17:01
 
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

:kli_ny: :kli_ny: :kli_ny: :kli_ny:

Sometimes I wonder if people really understands that Euros, Worlds, Olympics are sports competition with rules! It sounds like PLushy were a sort of political dissident not a competitive athlete who competes with other athlets for medals, in official competitions. :plush34:

I am sorry, but I do not think it is right to suggest other fans don't understand the most basic facts about Evgeni Plushenko's situation, just because they care about him in ways that are more than just about his victories and medals. To say that other fans "don't see him as a competitive athlete", simply because they don't see one particular choreographer or another as the be-all-and-end-all of everything: this seems to me to be a fairly extreme misrepresentation. It makes no sense to me to characterize the situation (for any skater) as a choice between skating programs choreographed by one of a few "approved" choreographers vs. being a "political dissident", and I also have to say that I think other Plushenko fans deserve more respect than this.

And I want to say that I'm not trying to be offensive toward you, but honestly, I think it should be plenty obvious that Evgeni and his team has always been consummate professionals who understand the rules better than random people (fans or otherwise) sitting behind computers and posting on FS forums. After all these years, and especially after this past season, I should have thought that it is quite completely proven. I understand that we all are fans of him for different reasons, but for myself, at this point to believe otherwise--the only reason I can imagine for it is if one actually considers him--I am sorry to be quite blunt--stupid. And well, I suppose it wouldn't surprise me if some people on FSU or GS would think this way, but at least for myself, I cannot imagine myself being a fan of anyone whom I believe to be stupid. So frankly, it is a little hard for me to understand why a fan would think that Evgeni and his team would not make decisions to the best of their abilities and according to their needs, convictions, and situation, or that they themselves know better.

But more importantly, I simply don't get why this is an issue at all. For one thing, if one actually reads the news report, one can see that Mishin was saying they were "excited" to work with Camerlengo. So once again, what on earth is the problem?
by whitebamboo
28 Apr 2012, 05:18
 
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training


All fans of Eugene want that the program was done by other choreographer.

Well, I am afraid that I don't really feel that I need to be included in the "all".

To be more precise, if Evgeni decides to skate a program by another choreographer, and it's a beautiful program (as subjective as that admittedly is), and he feels connected to it, then yes, I will be very happy. But the way I feel about it is that it is completely up to him and his team to decide. As for Camerlengo, if I actually see--with my own eyes--a wonderful program choreographed by him which suits Evgeni well, which then Evgeni decided not to use, maybe then I'll be a little rueful (for the program itself), but I will respect the decision of Evgeni and his team. But right now? No one has even seen even a single move, or heard more information than one snippet or two from Mishin. I think it's great that Evgeni and his team feel that they can try to learn things from different people, and that is good enough for me. I am not going to pin my hopes blindly any one choreographer or another, no matter how "COP-friendly" or "fashionable". And I am not going to talk about Evgeni and his team as if they don't know what they're doing or if they don't understand figure skating.

And yes, I know that people will say that if he doesn't get this or that "name" then he won't be able to beat Chan or Takahashi or he won't be on the podium or whatever. Well, to that I can only say that none of us have magical crystal balls. Call me cynical, but when it comes to scores, I believe what people say about "old" and "new" and "good" and "bad" choreography are more politics than anything else. I've seen people repeat the statements that anything Avdish choreographs or anything Plushenko (or Russian skaters or European skaters or whoever, for that matter) skates is "bad" choreography, whatever "bad" stands for. And sometimes they say it without even looking at the programs. Well, this is called prejudice . And some people deliberately spread it because they want to push their own agendas. And to be honest, I don't like seeing that kind of prejudice being internalized by Plushenko's own fans.

I am not saying that people have to love every bit or any of the choreography by David Avdish or anything like that. However, I still believe that if there is something about anyone's choreography that one likes or dislikes, then one should first have seen the actual program. And one should have some understanding of why specifically one feels that way, whether from a personal point of view or from the COP point of view. But right now, this entire discussion seems to me to be based on zero information of what Camerlengo has actually done or intends to do for Evgeni.

So at this point, for myself I just want him to skate what he wants. When it comes to competitiveness and winning, well, surely I'd have thought that by now, his own fans know how much he wants to fight to win. And I'd have thought that by now, his own fans know that he and his team know more about figure skating than they themselves.


P. S. Sorry, since we're already talking about choreographers, there's another thing that I just wanted to get off my chest. Since 2010, I've at times seen Plushenko's fans say--in so many words--that he "should get rid of" Avdish. I understand that people are saying this sort of thing because they want Evgeni to win, and they feel that some other choreographer would give him a better chance of winning. However, whether one likes David's choreography or not, given how close David is to Evgeni, how long they have been together, how much they have been through together, and how important he is to Evgeni as a team-member and friend, and also what kind of person Evgeni is, I believe such statements--put in such words--are just completely inappropriate things to say, coming from his fans. (Frankly, I would mind it a lot less from non-fans, or even haters.)

(Just to clarify, this is not directed at anyone in this particular discussion, actually, because nobody here right now has said anything like that. It's just something that has been bothering me a great deal for a long time.)


P. P. S. I just read the above post, and I apologize if it came across as a little aggressive-sounding. I am certainly not trying to appear righteous or a "bigger fan than thou" or anything. It's just that I seem to remember having this same type of discussion last year....(And that time, there was at least some information about the programs themselves.)
by whitebamboo
01 May 2012, 01:25
 
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

I think people are wishing to see another choreographer because Plushy has a huge potential that maybe is not fully explored. I think his possibilities are endless. And surely many people are better than one. He already has the best coach. I think it is good he has david that he trusts but one person can only do some great things, and certainlt Advish has made great programs for Evgeni, but surely any new person can add different perspective and some variety. Skating is also art, so it is like working with different artists. He can be a Monnet but also a Van Gogh. Also Evgeni even with not a big name as a choreographer gets big scores, so I believe he would get bigger ones with a more known choreographer and less effort, it is part of the system. I dont want him to stop working with Advysh but in addition to him with some others as well, I dont want him to suffer so much for a comeback, and get less scores because someone else has Lori Nichol but half Evgeni's talent.

Oh, I certainly do understand what you mean, and I certain do agree with what you are saying that "many people are better than one"! I also think that is what Evgeni is doing, and what he's always tried to do, as well as the circumstances allowed. I guess, mainly I just don't see how people are already drawing the conclusion that he is stopping to work with Camerlengo (as they seem to be interpreting it) at this point, based on the snippet of information that Mishin has mentioned so far. I guess, for myself, I also do not see it as a matter of "all or nothing". Even if he does not end up doing a program that is completely due to Camerlengo, I am certain that he will take something useful from having worked with him.

I also agree that "one person can only do some great things". Personally, I've imagined so many different things I would for myself love to see Evgeni skate, so many directions I would have loved to see him try. But, well, I want to comment that he himself is also only one person, though a very multi-faceted one. I believe he is an artist himself, and not a blank canvas for other artists to paint on. To my eyes, he already has a far, far wider range than any other skater I can think of, and experimented with more different styles. Nevertheless, even Monet and Van Gogh themselves couldn't be "both Monet and Van Gogh". Each artist has something that makes him what he is. They may experiment with different possibilities, go through different stages, push their own boundaries (all of which things I personally believe Evgeni has done and continues to do, btw), but in order to be genuine, those things have to be dictated by what is inside of them, what they feel. And in the end, Evgeni has to skate what is inside of him, what he feels.

Well, I don't know if I am expressing myself all that well. Last season, Evgeni already tried many different things, many different choreographers, many different images, many different programs. For myself, I can say that I still sometime regret what could have been, with the Jewish Melodies LP choreographed by Zhulin, though Tango de Roxanne has already become one of my favorites Plushenko LPs. Nevertheless, this does not mean that all the previous work by Evgeni and all the others before last season began were wasted, because even if he does not skate one particular program, he is capable of learning from different people, an taking elements that are useful to him.

And I remember what Evgeni said about that process in an interview. He said, "it was so difficult, so difficult". I can't quite describe how I felt when I first read that. Humbled , I guess. Perhaps how I feel is that we fan of course can always argue and say that we want him to do this or that, for our own sakes or for what we think of as his sake, but in the end, it is always a million times harder to actually do things than to sit here and type on a computer.

As to the matter of scores (which I see as completely separate from the artistic issue) , I for myself don't know that anyone can predict what will happen next season ....There is so much politics in the judging of skating, and I think the choreographer's name is one part of that, but by no means the only one...We'll see.
by whitebamboo
01 May 2012, 05:26
 
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Re: Женя на тренировках || Evgeni on training

... so I believe he would get bigger ones with a more known choreographer and less effort, it is part of the system....
I am primarily because of that agree that Plushy should to take a "known" choreographer - someone who have already built a "good reputation" in the countries which attacked Plushy due the so-called "non-existing the choreography" :ps_ih:

As for other things, by me - Plushy could be to the end of life to work only with Avidsh, which is his friend :a_g_a:

You know, this reminds me of the American (NBC?) Universal Sports' commentary on Evgeni's 2012 European Championship LP. They threw in a sentence "the choreography is not brilliant", and that was it. No explanation of why they thought so, no further elaboration--basically it was just a throwaway shot, completely unsupported, but they still wanted to influence their listeners with it. In the absense of actual explanations, I can only call it prejudice. (But then again, they even made fun of Evgeni's accent while speaking English, which to me was simply tacky beyond belief. :plush43: ) On the other hand, the British Eurosport commentators, Chris Howarth and Nicky Slater, praised the choreography at the end of Evgeni's program, and they said something about what they liked about it, that there were surges of energy and small breaks, that it didn't feel "frantic" to them, etc. To me, that is a much more sensible way of talking about skating.

(I am sorry, I do seem to be awfully wordy tonight...I'll be quiet now. :-) )
by whitebamboo
01 May 2012, 05:48
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

Nothing really new sfrom N/A bloggers - praise Plushy for the medals, the will of steel and determination, mention the "lack of artistry", etc ... :kli_ny:

Russian figure skater Evgeni Plushenko: aging or ageless?:
http://www.examiner.com/article/russian-figure-skater-evgeni-plushenko-aging-or-ageless


.... but that she did not mention that she saw Plushy in the May issue of Russian "Vogue", I would never look at the site :-) http://evgeni-plushenko.com/img/skan/big/365.jpg

*shrugs* Frankly, I suspect some of these NA experts don't know what "artistry" is if it came up and bit them on the a**, pardon my French.

Well, I read the article through, and basically all she's managed to say is essentially that since Plushy has the quad, he doesn't do anything else....To which I can only say, men's skating must be in a pretty bad state if any one skater gets to "define himself" by having the quad. (Yeah, maybe it was close to that state around 2010, but it certainly wasn't that way before 2006, and thankfully it is not that way now....)

Plus, ahe actually claimed Plushy "isn't known" for elegance and stretched lines. If she'd said that she personally isn't moved by his skating or that she doesn't see elegance in it, it would at least just be her opinion, and I understand that not everyone "gets" Plushy's skating, which is fine. But as she wrote it, and given Plushy was the men's skater with the most presentation 6.0s in the old system IIRC, and how people other than NA media and experts have often talked about him for years, I just think this claim is factually false.
by whitebamboo
10 May 2012, 15:13
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic



The most irritation part is that she herself was a skater and not an unknown one (national range). People would regard her as an expert in the field. Such "expert" really can confuse people's mind. :plush43: Maybe the "lines" she is talking about is purely figure skating term for skating skill (edges), otherwise, I would say Plushy is the most elegant skater still competing. His movements define elegance although sometimes the emotion is raw and fierce :hi_hi_hi:

LOL, the thing is that I've come to the realization that many of these experts in the field of skating are actually by no means experts in the fields of either logic or art. Not to say that "elegance and stretched lines" (whatever she meant by lines) = art, of course.) And it's possible that she meant edges by "lines", but I had the impression that generally people nowadays would talk about things like "deep" instead of "stretched"....? :plush38: (And when it comes to skating skills, Plushy certainly has long been known for fluidity and lightness, even if he may not emphasize the deep edges that are considered the "better" style these days.)
by whitebamboo
10 May 2012, 16:34
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic


No, she means body lines not edges. Her opinion isn't new to me, a lot of FS followers from N/A share the same view about Evgeni's skating, he isn''t regarded or recognized as an elegant or artistic skater. They have a different perception of what these things mean, so it's not a reason to be angry or upset. Just ignore her (them). :plush34:

Well, I suppose it is true that sometimes I honestly wonder if I am living in a completely different universe from some of them.... :ps_ih:

The thing is, though, if she'd said " in my opinion Plushenko isn't an elegant/artistic skater", and maybe explain how she feels about it, even if subjectively, then I would consider it a somewhat legitimate personal statement, even though one that I--from my point of view--would disagree with vehemently. But the way she said it--"he isn't known for elegance, etc."--then she's making a statement about the opinions of other followers of the sport. She's essentially claiming to speak for the majority of FS followers. And in that sense, from what I have seen of what media, fans, and FS insiders from around the world (as in, a bigger place than some North American message boards and blogs) say about Plushenko's skating, I believe it is simply not true. This is something that, I do have to confess, irritates me: people substituting their personal opinions for "the truth" and claiming to represent everybody else. (And BTW, speaking of "arrogance" since they always try to throw that label on Plushy, that is what I would call arrogance.)
by whitebamboo
10 May 2012, 22:12
 
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