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Re: Japan Open 2012 & gala Carnival on Ice - Saitama 06.10.2

Well, I think Evgeni lost about 9 points of TES on the 1A alone, and there are some doubled jumps and of course the 2A. So the TES potential of this program is really high, if it can be done cleanly. I think the main determining factor is, of course, his physical stamina. When it comes to PCS, the program is still unfinished, and this isn't his best skate, so it can also probably get a bit higher, even though of course PCS is still perhaps more dependent on what the judges think of you in general, rather than the actual performance. The scores of others don't bother me so much for this particular competition. (In particular with Buttle, I think he skated quite well, and after all he's a retired skater, so you can't really expect him to jump the same jumps as the others. And I can see why other people would like Chan's program in terms of choreography, even if it's not my style.)

I am glad to see that Evgeni's step sequence is level 4 this time. Obviously, he has never lacked the skills to do level 4 step sequences, and the point difference is actually not that huge, but I want to see this as a positive sign for his physical condition, that he and his team now feel there is enough stamina to go for this, too. Of course, doing two quads is tremendously demanding physically, especially at his age, so I'm still worried about it, but I believe he and in Mishin will make the best decisions in real competitions. And he's still not in full competition condition yet, and there is time.

I really have fallen in love with the idea of this program. I feel that somehow it still doesn't quite fit the sort of "pretty", well-balanced, no-extremes, no-madness aesthetics the ISU seems to promote, but frankly, one of the things I love about Evgeni is that he can do these things and "go against the trend" from an artistic point of view. I've seen people finding the music, composed of three different pieces, strange. Just for myself, I feel that there is internal logic to the idea, but I do think the music editing, as it is now, is maybe still a little bit rough....Of course, I am not a musician or anything, and I'm also certainly not suggesting that Evgeni and his team "should" do things any one way or another, but I am wondering what would be the effect, if some parts of the music gets re-written a little to bring out the coherence a bit more? (Well, Evgeni has a great understanding of music, and he is close to many musicians, so I am sure he will do what he feel is best there, too.)
by whitebamboo
09 Oct 2012, 00:23
 
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Re: Japan Open 2012 & gala Carnival on Ice - Saitama 06.10.2

I can't completely figure out what Kurt Browning actually meant in this particular tweet, but oh well. I guess personally I'm trying to not attribute malice to him; maybe it is just that he's a big fan of Jeff and he wanted to compliment his performance, and then happened to mention Evgeni separately. But regardless about what he says or thinks about Evgeni, I don't particularly agree with the way he said it, "taught everyone at the event" (whether he meant it to include the other skaters or just the audience). I guess, it's just my own personal opinion, if he'd said that Buttle "displayed perfect combination of technical and magical skating" (without "the", sorry) I wouldn't argue with it, that just says how he feels about this particular performance. But I don't see how any one skater, performing one program, can "teach everyone" about what is "the perfect combination" of art and technique in skating. It's just my personal opinion, I guess, but to me, the phrase "taught everyone" has the connotation that this particular way is how it should be, and you should skate just like this if you want to be artistic. And I just don't believe in that.

I am a huge fan of Evgeni in terms of artistic style (lol obviously), but I would never for myself point to for instance his 2004 RN Nijinsky and say "this taught everyone the perfect combination of artistic and technical skating". Or, to give much more extreme examples, would you go to the art museum, look at the Mona Lisa, and say "Leonardo taught everyone the perfect combination of technique and magic in painting"? Or go to a concert, and say "Beethoven taught every one the perfect combination of technique and magic in music?" To me, that would sound kind of ridiculous. And those are actual Great Works of Art that have come down to us through history! People accept that there are different styles in painting, music, etc., and each person may prefer some styles over others, but there is no single style that needs to be"taught" to everyone as the one perfect way, so I don't see why people would want to think this way about skating.

(Well, anyways, I don't want to be unfair to Kurt Browning: perhaps he just really wanted to praise Buttle's performance highly and didn't choose the words carefully...)
by whitebamboo
10 Oct 2012, 18:58
 
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Re: Другие интересные новости || Other interesting news

Джонни Вейр: "Вернуться, как Плющенко, я не могу"
(Returning like Plushenko, I can not)
...
А мне в Сочи будет почти 30. Это очень тяжело, особенно если ты не дерешься, как зверь, как это делает Плющенко....

http://winter.sport-express.ru/figureskating/reviews/25370/
:plush38: more and more often, when Johnny "justifying" himself, he used somewhat insulting comparisons of Plushy with beasts :plush44: .... and I do not like it at all :-(

I guess, I don't think that Johnny (of all people) wanted to insult Evgeni, perhaps it's just that he generally seems to tend to use words in a kind of colloquial and "loose" way? It's just my personal interpretation, but I'm guessing that "fight like a dog" isn't actually negative in his own mind when he was saying it...But in other languages it could sound quite different.

(Sorry, I just assumed that's what you were talking about? I haven't looked at the Russian article via Google yet, but I think I saw part of it in English on Tumblr....)
by whitebamboo
13 Oct 2012, 16:08
 
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Re: Japan Open 2012 & gala Carnival on Ice - Saitama 06.10.2

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
-Winston Churchill

Somehow I came across this quote from Churchill today and I immediately thought about Plushy. Plushy and Mishin have always stood up for what they believed in figure skating, they never shy away from their beliefs, or should I say, shy away from their responsibilities as leaders and visionaries of the sport. They stood up for quad in Vancouver, and brought it back to the sport. :plush41: They will continue the fight :plush46:

Thank you for this great quote, Lily!

In Nikoneko's beautiful video, one of the quotes from Evgeni that moved me the most is "The duty of a top athlete is to improve the sport". That's such an idealistic thing to say, but looking at his career, including and especially Vancouver, I really think he has always done by actions what he spoke in words. To me personally, having stood up for the quad in Vancouver may very well be seen as one of his most meaningful achievements in the sport, even more so than the colors of medals. And this includes those things he said for which he was accused of being "unsportsmanlike" or "ungracious" at the time (FWIW, I feel at that point, being "gracious", from his point of view, was just about the least necessary thing imaginable).

(Incidentally, since we're talking about Vancouver, the quad, and the Canadian skating establishment, I do want to say that although I've never been a fan of Elvis Stojko, I always felt very grateful to him for speaking up so strongly on Evgeni's side at the time of Vancouver. I thought he was always rather negativistic of Evgeni's skating (and about Russian skaters), so I can only surmise that his beliefs about the importance of the quad in men's skating was strong enough to overrule whatever he though about Evgeni in particular, and any cultural differences or "Cold War" mindset there might have been. This is something I feel a lot of respect for.)
by whitebamboo
13 Oct 2012, 19:56
 
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Re: Golden Skate Awards 2012 - Turin, Italy 20.10.2012

Girls! I have seen Plushy's Swan many times, and I love it!! :son-ce: But I don't understand, why they didn't use COP expert, when they choreographed the program? :plush38: I know they improved this thing, but more needs to be dealt with it. Zhenya can collect many points easy way!!!! I'm not an expert, I had this thought, when i watched the Skate America. What do you think?

Well, I don't know who would count as a "COP expert" in this sense...(After all, Sergei Petukhov choreographed the first Olympic gold program in men's singles under the COP :-) ) Evgeni worked with several choreographers this summer, including Camerlengo and Miyamoto, and even if he and Mishin decided in the end not to use the specific program by Miyamoto, they still incorporated moves from those choreographers into this program.

With the program itself, I wanted to mention that I personally really like the new things they did to the music. In terms of points, I don't know if you can compare the level of difficulty of programs at a show vs. at a competition....The step sequence was level 4 at JO, the spins weren't all at high levels yet at JO, but Evgeni really never had problems with spin levels (usually they're two level 4s and one level 3, IIRC). So I think it's mostly the jump placement (at the JO, there were 6 jumps in the first half and 2 in the second half) where the program isn't optimized yet (from the TES point of view), and from what Evgeni seems to be doing at KOI and this time at GSA, I have a (not necessarily too well-founded) guess that they want to change something in that direction too. But given the fact that he seems to be planning two quads and two 3As for the LP this season, there are questions of physical stamina to worry about, of course. If you look at SA, and how the skaters performed there....What is the point of a program optimized for collecting more points if you can't skate it cleanly? As for transitions, there is already more there than for instance at the test skate. But in the end, I also think that for Evgeni, it is very important that the program works as an artistic whole.

The demands of skating a free program with a full set of difficult jumps, spins and step sequences (not to mention transitions) on any skater is massive . So for myself, I really don't want to ever say Evgeni can "easily" get more points by, say, putting in more of transitions, spin levels, more jumps in the second half, etc. Because none of it is ever easy. I am absolutely certain that Evgeni and his team knows the rules and issues of the COP.
by whitebamboo
22 Oct 2012, 01:29
 
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Re: Golden Skate Awards 2012 - Turin, Italy 20.10.2012

With SS, this is not completely related to the question of what Evgeni "should" do, but in general, actually I wanted to mention that I think Evgeni has always had great skating skills. Even when he was a teenager, this was something commentators often talked about specifically about his skating. In recent years, especially in the Vancouver Olympic season, his skating skills were rather underrated and (in my own personal opinion) sometimes underscored. I think--though I am obviously not an expert--it's partly because of politics (especially at Vancouver, with the amount of propaganda about how he "only has jumps") and the lack of support from the Russian Fed. Partly, of course, it is also because of his physical issues with injuries, stamina, etc.: he mentioned last season that if he weren't injured, he could have done everything--jumps, spins, footwork, the basic skating itself--differently.

I also get the sense that his skating skills is a different style than what is the most fashionable now, perhaps more "old school". It may have somewhat less of the kind of the showy deep-edge tricks that is so valued today. Perhaps, I even sometimes want to guess (only guess) that in his view of skating, skating skills possibly has (or did have) a more "foundational" character; it is what the entire performance is build upon, rather than something you would especially show off in and of itself, to some extent. However, when people talk about his skating, I often see statements like "he makes it look so easy", "he is one with the ice", "he makes the rink look like his own home"....How is it possible to give such impressions without tremendous skating skills? I have also heard people who have watched him live say that he has great speed, but you don't see him working hard to gain that speed. To me (though I've not watched him live, and from what I've heard people say, this is even far more pronounced when you do see him live), it seems that Evgeni's skating is characterized by an incredible sense of ease and naturalness, as well as seemingly effortless control. (With the control aspect, I especially appreciated the British Eurosport commentators--former ice dancers themselves--at the European Championships in Sheffield earlier this year, pointing out one particular moment of transition right after his quad: "do you see how he's able to just turn and stop?" It may not be as showy as some other types of transitions, but even I get that it's not something you'd be able to do without a great deal of skill.)

Jackie Wong of the SF Examiner (a North American commentator, but one whom I've found to be less prejudiced than most in general), mentioned in response to people questioning Evgeni's PCS that


Plushenko had a great effortlessness in movement and a natural ability to generate great speed and power. Those aspects of his skating are sometimes underappreciated.


Perhaps his skating skills are of such a type, and to such an extent, that sometimes it's possible to actually forget that it is in fact a skill. And also, when he skates, his entire body is so expressive, the performance is so integrated as a whole, and there is so much emotion being communicated, that I suspect sometimes it's possible one's attention is drawn away from what is happening specifically under his blades.

Of course, what I as a fan think doesn't matter nearly as much as what the judges think. So I am by no means saying that he shouldn't "meet" the currently prevalent view of skating at least part of the way, even if those views perhaps may be seen as artistically limiting and somewhat logically flawed. I think in one respect, having more transitions will already display his skating skills in a way that is more advantageous in today's judging system. But then again, what the judges think often are more influenced by other factors than by what is actually happening on ice. So I guess, I can see he is working to adapt to the "new direction" in skating--of course, within what is allowed by his artistic beliefs and instincts. But I think it would also be helpful if the particular strengths of his style of skating skills are, in fact, not so undervalued. However, that is a matter which does not necessarily depend on he himself so much, but more on others...

(So sorry for the long, rambling, and maybe slightly off-topic post again....But I do think this is one issue which affects how his skating is judged.)
by whitebamboo
22 Oct 2012, 20:25
 
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Re: Golden Skate Awards 2012 - Turin, Italy 20.10.2012


So? This russians news are paraphrase of one translated italian article into russian ... with many added "details" :kli_ny:

... and why yout dont like this icon: :)-(: ? :-) ... I'm just trying to quiet stir "patriotic passions" in Russia :ps_ih:


Well, it seems some people will try their hardest to find or make up reasons to criticize Plushy, no matter how small!

To be honest, I thought the Italian reporter for this interview seemed a little bit...How to say it? :)-(: For instance, right in the title is "Plushenko: I'm going to win in Sochi", which, if one actually reads the text, Evgeni did not say at all. He merely said--as he always does--that to be on the podium would be a victory for him. Then in the subtitle, the reporter implied that Evgeni's son will be named Alexander because of Del Piero, which Evgeni did not say either in the actual interview. (Of course, he's great friends with Del Piero, and it may be the reason, but it wasn't what he actually said.) So with this "move", who knows? (Of course, I'm guessing the interview itself was probably in English, then translated to Italian? Then translated again to English and Russian. So it's possible that Evgeni himself didn't use the most precise word in English...)
by whitebamboo
25 Oct 2012, 17:48
 
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Re: 3 ноября у Жени День рождения! || Birthday wishes for Zh

Happy birthday, dear Evgeni! :hea_rt: :hea_rt: :hea_rt:

We Chinese have a saying from ancient times: "At thirty, a man stands on his own." In one way, this saying does not fit you, because you have already been standing on your own--so tall and so strong ever since you were half this age. You have already been through so much, done so much, brought so much happiness to so many.

But in another way, the saying fits you, because it says that thirty is only a beginning. For all the brilliance that you have given the world, I believe your most brilliant adventures are yet to come. May your inner light burn ever strong, and may your heart be ever filled with joy!
by whitebamboo
03 Nov 2012, 19:25
 
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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

I guess, I myself like the Prophet SP. Purely in my own mind, I imagined it as maybe a kind of lonely spiritual search, and the music fitted that well, with the contrast between the peaceful, religious-sounding organ in the back and the more heart-tugging yet still restrained electric guitar melody. But it is, I think, perhaps supposed to be a quieter, more contemplative program, and meant to require a little more thought and time in savoring. I thought there was turmoil there, but "inner turmoil", beneath the surface. For myself, I felt that it took me several viewings, and several listenings of the music, before I started to get into the feel of it, but then it stays in one's mind.

So in this sense, Plushy appearing more "quiet" is maybe rather fitting to the concept of this program, and quiet tears instead of wild cheering and applause is not a bad response at all. After all, I think one would not usually expect wild cheers and excitement after a performance of blues music in general, either. (Though of course, music is never everything in Plushy's programs: one always have to look at each individually. For instance, he used the same music in the Prisoner, but there, imho the image and story of the prisoner was much more concrete and so immediately attention-grabbing, that the music played a somewhat more "background" role.)

So personally I do find the Prophet very interesting artistically, especially since I think it also revealed yet another new aspect of Plushy. It seemed to me to be a new thing they were doing there. But now with what Mishin says here, a thought occurred to me that perhaps one could question whether it is 100% suited towards competition purposes. I do not mean in the sense of transitions, element placement, etc.: I am not an expert, but from what I've seen and heard, the Prophet was fairly PCS-friendly. But now I wonder if in competition, "contemplative" and "slow savoring" are the best things, especially for him. Figure skating in competition is not pure art; it also has to be scored, and scored right away, there is no time for the audience and judges to try to be thoughtful. And in a competition atmosphere, "excitement" instead of "contemplation" is more expected. Maybe it is also an advantage (psychologically) to also give the message "I am here to win", and whatever the program itself is about, to have that reinforce, or at least not contradict that message (or more precisely, be seen as contradicting it on a cursory viewing). Mishin has been using the phrase "aorta-tearing" (the other time I remember it was in terms of R&J vs. Saint-Saens). Not all art has to be aorta-tearing or grab the audience right away, and not all of Plushy's programs (including non-competition ones) are like that, but I do wonder if for him, it might be seen as a certain kind of advantage in competitive programs.

Well, I don't know, all of the above is probably nonsense again....I am not saying this actually has anything to do with why Plushy and Mishin decided as they did. There are probably several factors at play, not all of which we know about. (Though I feel the fact that Yuzuru Hanyu skated similar music need not be one of them. Just because the musics were similar does not mean the programs were similar, in terms of their general feelings.) For me, it's merely interesting to think about the relation between the "feeling" of a program and how that affects it competitively for him. In any case, I doubt that these are issues that would preoccupy most skaters, to be honest. That's what I find so special about him: I feel there is always a conceptual unity to his performances. The content of the program is still important to him; it's generally speaking not just about "being beautiful" or "performing the music" in the most obvious way. He could have been less "quiet" and more overtly passionate and "audience-grabbing" in skating Prophet, but I don't know if that would fit in their overall conception of the program. (And as Camerlengo said during the summer, that conception originated with Plushy and Mishin.) Though either way, whatever he chooses to do in competitions, I have to say I actually do hope to still see the Prophet again, maybe as an exhibition program...
by whitebamboo
01 Dec 2012, 20:16
 
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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

I am afraid that personally speaking, I would have to very respectfully disagree about the music for the first part of Storm, Cekoni.... :-) Actually for myself, I thought short as it was, it was one of the most brilliant things Edvin ever wrote for Plushy! I thought musically, there was a lot happening--it starts low like the air-pressure, and keeps on rising, and the notes grows more "broken" with the rising wind, the pressure builds toward the second half. There is a change every two phrases. What was most amazing was that it was so different from the Vivaldi-Yanni section, but it fitted together, and pulls the Baroque Vivaldi into the age of Romanticism. (Lol, sorry, I've been thinking a little about Plushy and the "Romantic era", recently...It's probably just my own imaginings again. Anyway, of course it is all just my own interpretation and opinion.)

As for Saint-Saens, actually I wanted to mention that one thing I found interesting was that Mishin in this interview calls the middle "Swan" section "Dying Swan". And I seemed to remember he and maybe Plushy has used this name on other occasions. I was just looking up on wikipedia on the history of the piece, and actually, Saint-Saens himself only named the piece Le Cygne or Swan, without any mention of dying or death. The title "Dying Swan" was only for the ballet piece, first danced by Anna Pavlova in 1905, and choreographed by Mikhail Fokine, which interpreted the Saint-Saens piece specifically to be about a swan that is dying. I am certain that Mishin and Plushy are aware of this (especially with their discussions with the Saint-Saens professor). So, maybe I am reading too much into this extra word, but it does make me look at the program, especially the middle section of the program, with slightly different eyes...It does make it even more interesting to me.
by whitebamboo
01 Dec 2012, 22:02
 
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Re: Женя и его тренер А.Н.Мишин || Evgeni and his coach Mish

:plush38: I think that one of the reason because they cancelled 'the Prophet', which in my opinion is a stunning music, is because Hanyu is using a Gary Moore melody this year in his sp. And remember he set a new world record with his performance. By the way, he is Japanese, but he actually hasn't any problem with the music.

Actually, if I remember correctly, Evgeni and Mishin decided to go with Storm pretty soon after the JO, before the GP series started (i. e. before Hanyu set his SP world record)? He was already skating Storm at the KOI on October 13-14. In any case, Hanyu is a wonderful young skater, and of course we don't know all of the factors involved in Evgeni's and his team's decision, but on the surface of it, I still doubt that Evgeni needed to "avoid" having a similar type of music as Hanyu (or any other skater, really). After all, when it comes to performance and other "artistic" aspects, I still maintain that Evgeni is far more mature.


No problem, anyone can to have own opinion :a_g_a: ... I just think that first 2/3 of program is "uninteresting", that is - not holding the attention of the average viewer :mi_ga_et:

Also, I think that on Plushy's "Storm" Edvin Marton did not do anything :du_ma_et: - it's Yani version, probably in the performance of Vanessa Mae (because that, Mishin always mentions her) :hi_hi_hi:

Of course, I am only speaking from my own point of view! :-) Though from what I've read of audience reports, I thought that the average viewer, such as the ones in the shows he's been in this summer, reacted well enough to Storm...

It's curious, the mention of Vanessa Mae... :plush38: Though Yanni's rendition (whoever it is played by) of the Vivaldi movement definitely only starts in the middle of the program. I think if I understood things correctly, one of our Chinese girls asked Evgeni about the first half of the music for Storm during this summer's Artistry on Ice, and he replied that it was an original composition by Edvin, though I might have misunderstood it.
by whitebamboo
05 Dec 2012, 03:16
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

Plushenko, like every other skater, has the right to decide, based on his own competitive interests, what competitions to enter or not to enter. And given his age and injuries, every competition carries its risk.

But then again...LOL, why am I even trying to reply to Ms. DiManno's "point"? As far as I can see, there is no content to her article other than various not-so-subtle personal attacks, and against a character that's completely imagined by her own mind. I don't even know if it's possible to "defend" Evgeni against this, because it's like some sort of fiction, really.

(And btw, speaking of fiction, why did she have to drop Tolstoy's name in this article? If she'd actually understood anything about Tolstoy, she'd have know that the characters in his books actually have inner motivations and human depths and are actually not "vain, disdainful, imperious" caricatures.)
by whitebamboo
05 Dec 2012, 22:24
 
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Re: Почему я люблю катание Жени || Why I love Plushy’s skati

Thank you, Cekoni, for starting this thread!

The posters above have already said a lot of how I feel about Evgeni's skating, better than I can. I want to add that personally, I love Evgeni's skating because it captures my imagination. Of course, he has superb techniques, and he skates and moves elegantly and beautifully, but to me, there is far more than beauty in his skating. There is always something there that makes me want to reach with my mind, to somehow feel, respond, understand, learn, see some things differently, go beyond just the enjoyment of beautiful moves and exciting jumps.

I can't quite express well what that "something" is, and I've tried to think a little about it. In fact, because of Evgeni, recently I actually started to try to read a little about the theories and criticism of art. One idea from aesthetics I learned about (and am still learning about), and which was a bit like a light clicking on in my mind, was the idea of the sublime , as distinct from the traditional notion of "beauty", elegance, gracefulness, etc. It is a notion that has had many different definitions, but roughly speaking, it can be said to be a tremendous sense of power or greatness, or intensity, that is not always instantly easy or pleasing or reassuring for the audience, but makes demands and challenges, pulls the mind out of its usual comfort zone. One description, not the most well-known but one that I like, says sublimity


...for a moment checks, baffles, subdues, even repels us or makes us feel our littleness, and which then, forcing its way into the imagination and emotions, distends or uplifts them to its own dimension. We burst our own limits, go out to the sublime thing, identify ourselves ideally with it, and share its immense greatness.


(By the British literary scholar and critic A. C. Bradley.) To my own eyes, in his best moments, Evgeni has reached or come close to reaching this. One example that I feel may fit this is perhaps the last moments of his Tango Roxanne performance in Sheffield. Even from the video, I felt the sense of an awesome power--not physical, his physical stamina was starting to run out at the last spin--but something more mysterious, "spiritual" perhaps, as if coming out the ice and into him, pushing against and ultimately in the very last few seconds bursting the form of the choreography, triumphing over circumstances, fate, what was considered impossible five minutes ago, and transcending the "pain and disappointment" (in his own words) of the earlier parts of the program. And for the audience that saw and sensed this--rapture.

Another things I read recently about art is an article that lovplush showed me, which she also mentioned in her wonderful post above. It was by a classical music critic for the New York Times, about what is "charisma" in musicians, but much of what it says applies very well to how I feel about Evgeni. The article starts by characterizing charisma in performers as a quality that makes you unable to look away, which some seem to be born with. I think Evgeni was born with it, and I could see that kind of charisma blazing out even in the performances when he was 14, 15 years old. It's hard to describe, but for me, perhaps it is a kind of life-force, strong and bright for all to see. But I also believe that over time, as he grew and matured as a man, gaining more experience of life, his charisma also matured, into the deeper kind that was described by the soprano Aprile Millo, as quoted in the end of the article:


[speaking of Hemingway's descriptions of the Spanish bullfight]...those who had the old spirit: the nobility, bravery, heart, 'duende'. I believe this also happens in the theater. The crowd can sense the one with the authentic message, the connection to the truth.


Now I will apologize, because I think I will put in a little personal side-rant here....Authentic message. Connection to the truth. These are big words, and I don't know if all figure skating experts and fans would agree that such things possibly can, or even should, have their place in figure skating. I guess, I admit I don't read a very large amount about figure skating and the way people talk about it in general, so maybe the following is based in part on not entirely accurate impressions. But of what I've read from commentators and discussions from "expert" FS fans, sometimes it seems to me that there are times when I've read entire articles, or pages of discussion, about how well (or not) a skater performed, and about how artistic (or not) a program is, but if I had not seen the performance already beforehand, I still would not know anything whatsoever about what the skater was performing, what the program was, what feelings it might or did evoke. Sometimes when I read about a program or a performance from the artistic point of view, I barely see a single adjective that would distinguish this particular program or performance from another "good" one. To look at some experts' words, being "artistic" seems to be more about have good skating skills, plenty of transitions, elegant lines (perhaps), enough TES points in the second half of the program, etc. These are all important things, absolutely and of course, but for me, they are more on the technical sides of things, and are means toward artistic expression. It is, of course, a perfectly valid way of looking at figure skating as a sport, and perhaps in many situations, it is plenty of a basis upon which to enjoy a performance aesthetically.

But to assume--as it seems to be implied by some comments on the parts of fans and experts--that this is all that figure skating can, or should, or needs to be artistically, while disregarding the possibility of "message" (or "intent", as the ISU itself puts it in its PCS judging guidelines): I would have to say that to me--personally, of course, it is only my own opinion--this would be profoundly disappointing. Again, I am only a layperson when it comes to "understanding art", but in what I've begun to read, I often see the words "form", and "content", and "unity of form and content". To assume that there is only form, I think, does a disservice to any art-form. To see art only in terms of form, I think, leads to the danger of losing a great deal.

My apologies again. Back to topic: in my own interpretation of Evgeni's skating, I am convinced that in his case, artistic content --in the sense of "authentic message" and "connection to the truth" and all those big huge phrases--is highly important.

(I'm sorry....This is again (as usual with me) turning into some sort of long polemic. I'll write a little more later about Evgeni.)
by whitebamboo
17 Dec 2012, 23:38
 
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Re: Почему я люблю катание Жени || Why I love Plushy’s skati

(Sorry, I can't help going on a little more.)

I don't quite know how to talk more specifically about how I feel about the art of Evgeni's skating, without writing individually about each one of his programs. In a way, I feel that is what they deserve. To me, there is something new and different about each of them, how each one of them feels, what it makes me think. Perhaps that's even true of different performances of the same program. (The example I'm thinking about the most is Je suis Malade. Somehow, possibly because of some special nature of it, it seems to me--or maybe I am imagining it--that in the two years from Vancouver to Sheffield, each time he skated Malade, it always reflected something different and very personal, to some extent revealing of his mental and emotional state at the time.) For me, it is not always easy to formulate the "feeling" or "content" of each program. It doesn't usually tell a story. It isn't always concrete or obvious. He doesn't always necessarily portray a single character. But I always get a sense that something is there, that he is saying something to me, not in so many clear words but by illumination, and that is one thing that makes Evgeni's programs so compelling for me.

So I want to look at each of Evgeni's programs on its own terms, to see it and try to understand it, even if I have to put my own imagination to hard work . And that's another characteristic of his skating that I love: his remarkably wide range. There is the "divine" NIjinsky (in the sense that sometimes I almost want to call it religious art), and the human--to my own eyes, very vulnerably yet defiantly human--Tango Roxanne. There is the "great tragic love" of Malade, and the "life-affirmation" of Storm. Maybe I'll say that to me, each program allows a different aspect of emotional experience to be brought into focus. I cannot find a single generic description for the content of his art--what is his "message", his "truth", or a single standard by which to judge it.

I cannot compare Evgeni to any other skater, but I'm thinking about an example that in a way compares him to himself. About his new Saint-Saens program, I've more than once seen FS fans say something along the lines that in the middle (Swan) part, he seemed "softer",and that's an artistic improvement from what he was before, but at the end, at the Danse Macabre part, he again became too "frantic", too "over the top", etc. I must say that I cannot agree with this kind of argument. I'm sorry. I get having a personal preference for one part of the program over another, or for one style over another. But to use one measure for the surface and form of things that are fundamentally different, disregarding what they are, what they are expressing, and then using that measure to judge one style as "better artistically" than another: this is not something I would do. It seemed to me that he is expressing different ideas in these two parts of the program (as to what ideas, people may interpret and argue about), and when the content is different, then of course the form has to be, also.

So this is Evgeni's variety. Yet another aspect of his skating I see is that at the same time, all these different programs, images, emotional experiences, however one wants to call it, it still always comes from him . Maybe a big part of it is in the absolute conviction with which Evgeni skates, or as lilywang put it so much better in her post above, the "integrated" character of every aspect of his skating that makes it "so real and so natural". I remember Evgeni once said that he needs to "feel every move", and I think it is borne out by the way he prepares and treats programs. I suspect he works at erasing the divisions between him and the choreography. At times, to say that he "performs" the program almost seems like the wrong word; rather, I want to say that he displays and reveals (a word that Tatiana Tarasova recently used, and which I really liked). Another thing Evgeni once said was, "if you want to know me, watch me skate". And once when Yana was asked the question "what are Plushenko's real emotions", she answered, without hesitation: "those on the ice". I don't know how else to describe it except that watching him skate, I am instantly and completely convinced of the truth of those words.

So sometimes I find it strange, how his programs can have both this tremendous range, yet this intensely personal quality, that the moves seem to rise directly out of him. But now in my own mind, I imagine that perhaps one clue is something Mishin once said, in talking about his Olympic champion students. He characterized Evgeni by saying that he is unique among skaters in the "wide range of his creativity". I remember when I first read this, I found it interesting that Mishin said "creativity", rather than the more expected "expressiveness" (or in the ISU's definition, the ability to "translate the intent of the music and choreography"). I also found it curious that he would use "wide range" to describe "creativity". But maybe I'm starting to understand what he meant a little. Right now, my theory is that Evgeni is able to give expression and form to all these different emotions and experiences, he has such a great range in his skating, because he has this range, all these different facets, inside him. To go out on a limb here, it's the size of his spirit. This is, perhaps, what I want to call his "connection to the truth", and I really do believe that more than his skating skills, his ability to jump quads, his elegance and beauty even, this is his greatest gift as a figure skater.

(Well, anyways. I just looked at what I wrote. Perhaps it may come across as exaggerated and pretentious over-praise and over-interpretation, using all those wild phrases, and one can argue that maybe all these are just my responses and imaginations, "only" inside my mind. But I believe that in art, a response in the mind of the audience is needed, and an act of imagination is a big part of that. And for me personally, Evgeni's skating, or maybe his entire person when he is skating, demands that imagination, that kind of mental and emotional response, far more so than the works of any other skater. Looking back, I do feel that he has shown me things, made me more aware of things, through his skating, and that is the kind of art which I personally find deeply significant.)

P. S. I know that Evgeni is 30 years old, and that he has had too many injuries to count. I know there are many wonderful and very, very strong skaters now much younger than him. The road ahead of him is hard, and probably will only get harder every step of the way. That's true purely from a competitive sense, but also, I think his (and his team's) artistic insistence, their internal standards, makes it so much harder. But that's the way it is. I only felt like I needed to let out some of the thoughts that I've had recently, considering him merely as an artist.
by whitebamboo
19 Dec 2012, 17:45
 
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Re: Юбилейное шоу "Всего лишь 30!" || Birthday show - 07.11.


Hi,everyone,sorry for being late. I seldom go on forum after getting back home from Russia.One of my family member was sick in hospital and has been passed away a week ago.When I'm free,I will go on forum as much as possible.

I upload this video: http://kuai.xunlei.com/d/WXTKDVQVZDSU ,the speed may be slower.

Dear bigeyegugu, I am so sorry to hear about the passing of your family member. Please take care of yourself and jie2ai1...*hugs*
by whitebamboo
05 Dec 2012, 19:56
 
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Re: Чемпионат Европы 2013 || European Championships 2013

When I first saw what happened, I was upset, but now, after a little while, you know what, I don't care what the results are. I don't care how the others do. So yes, his body is human. I remember he said before the competition started, "I am ready for any result". He also said, before this season started, "every competition from here on will be training for Sochi".

As long as his injuries doesn't get worse from this--that's all I am praying for.
by whitebamboo
24 Jan 2013, 18:37
 
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Re: Чемпионат Европы 2013 || European Championships 2013

When I first saw what happened, I was upset, but now, after a little while, you know what, I don't care what the results are. I don't care how the others do. So yes, his body is human. I remember he said before the competition started, "I am ready for any result". He also said, before this season started, "every competition from here on will be training for Sochi".

As long as his injuries doesn't get worse from this--that's all I am praying for.

His results in Sochi depend also on this competition. If he finishes off podium it would be a disaster! :plush30: Once his PCS starts to go down there is no way back!

Disaster? It's clear that he is angry with himself and unsatisfied with the results, but he and Mishin haven't called it a "disaster" as of yet. As he once wrote, "the last word is not yet spoken". He may very well finish off the podium this time, but even if he does, he (and Mishin, and his team) will still keep on fighting. What else--as fans--can we possible ask for? Or have we be so "spoiled" by all his miracles that we have come to expect them?

I am worried about (apparently) the security guards preventing him from warming up off-ice, though (if I understood google translate correctly). I really hope this problem gets solved by the FS.
by whitebamboo
24 Jan 2013, 18:50
 
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Re: Чемпионат Европы 2013 || European Championships 2013

Thank you, MiLa! :plush39:


- We left the quad because of the injury. Obviously I could not change the quad for the triple. May be if I have decided to make that earlier, the result would be different. I tried to make the jump at the training, but did not succeed. And the security made me out of myself. Some idiots! They did not allow me to warm up. Do not run, do not walk, go there, go here – one of them began to push me…..And also / he shows his palms/…when I tied my shoes before the performance I cut my hands. So many things gathered together, but anyhow it is unforgivable to make such mistakes.


Now that I am reading this in a better translation, I am getting really, really furious. One of them actually pushed him? :plush43: :plush43: :plush43:

I remember he was saying that nowadays he needs to warm-up much longer than when he was younger. If he doesn't do that, it's really increasing the risk of aggravating his injuries. This is a major international figure skating competition. They should know something about how it works for skaters.
by whitebamboo
25 Jan 2013, 03:55
 
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Re: Чемпионат Европы 2013 || European Championships 2013


Евгений Плющенко: сорванный триум ф
Зимние виды - Фигурное катание
http://winter.sport-express.ru/figureskating/reviews/28073/
....
Елена ВАЙЦЕХОВСКАЯ 25.01.2013 00:08
Translation by quiqie from http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?86725-quot-Evgeni-Plushenko-failed-triumph-quot-by-Elena-Vaitsekhovskaya&s=3fed8d998507b0c8fef9d88edc80be89

"Evgeni Plushenko: failed triumph"
by Elena Vaitsekhovskaya



By Madame E. V.? :sh_ок: :sh_ок:

Well, maybe I'm too distrustful...But in any case I won't speak of him as if he were dead and gone. It's going to be a hard year coming, incredibly hard, I think, but we will look to the future, right? plush48

His fighting spirit will be for later, when he will need it. But for now, I will pray for recovery and patience. I will pray that our love, and the love of those close to him, protect him.

Thank you, Cekoni, and all the other girls who were there in Zagreb for him!
by whitebamboo
29 Jan 2013, 02:00
 
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Re: Чемпионат Европы 2013 || European Championships 2013

Елена ВАЙЦЕХОВСКАЯ 25.01.2013 00:08
:sh_ok: .......... What's the catch?!

anyway good article :-)

LOL, now that I read it some more, maybe it seemed to me (slightly) that she felt she could be "gracious and magnanimous" at an enemy's "funeral"? :ps_ih: Perhaps that was why she talked about Trankov's father, who passed away just before the competition began, at the start of the article.

But then again, perhaps I should not be ungenerous. Maybe she really had a change of heart instead. Either way, it's not a bad article, certainly better than comments from a lot of others.
by whitebamboo
29 Jan 2013, 20:26
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

Thank heavens!!!

I just googled recovery for disc replacement a little; according to what I saw, it seems the doctors will probably encourage him to walk soon, and to have some level of physical activities during recovery. Of course, it is extremely importantly not to put too much stress on the back. Walking and swimming are two exercises that are recommended, which were also what Mishin mentioned. (The en.rian.ru report said he won't be able to walk for four weeks; I think that's probably a misinterpretation of what Mishin said.) There may be something called "distraction pain", which happens because the two bones are stretched farther apart again by the artificial disc, but it is normal and will be temporary. And maybe he will have to wear a brace for some time.

Anyways, I am so relieved that at least the operation itself went well. Now I am praying the recovery goes well, too...
by whitebamboo
31 Jan 2013, 19:13
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

Thank you so much, maolmi, for this wonderful idea, and Cekoni for organizing it! :plush39: :plush39: :plush39:

As Zhenya is already so much in all our minds, I did want to mention Yana also. She just gave birth less than a month ago. It seems like so much has happened in this month. I don't know much about how it is in Europe, but at least here in America, I know that doctors would always be telling women after giving birth to rest, let their bodies recover, let others take care of them, and so on. But so soon after labor, Yana has been doing so much to support and care for Zhenya, and to fight for him, too. In addition to all that Zhenya is going through physically, she has to deal with all those haters and slanderers, who now think they've finally found their chance. So let's not forget Yana, either. I want to suggest that if you get the chance, please also remember write @yanarudkovskaya with words of love and support!
by whitebamboo
02 Feb 2013, 19:51
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic

Евгений Плющенко в 11.30 утра подал заявление в полицию на телекомментатора Андрея Журанкова

http://www.mk.ru/social/article/2013/02/11/810590-evgeniy-plyuschenko-v-1130-utra-podal-zayavlenie-v-politsiyu-na-telekommentatora-andreya-zhurankova.html

Знаменитый спортсмен, олимпийский чемпион Евгений Плющенко доказал, что он слов на ветер не бросает, особенно когда задеты его честь и достоинство. В понедельник в 11.30 утра Евгений пришел в ОМВД своего района, чтобы попросить правоохранительные органы вмешаться в конфликт с комментатором Андреем Журанковым и разрешить его согласно букве закона. Плющенко считает, что Закон о клевете должен расставить все точки над i в заявлении комментатора о том, что «операция Плющенко - это пиар».

....


I could only read the google English translation, so I didn't quite understand this too well...Are these pictures from today? From this report, it sounds like Evgeni already came back to Russia for this? (I hope I'm wrong.)

I'm so worried about him, more so than I've ever been since Zagreb. It makes my heart sick to see people doing this to him, when he needs to focus on his health and on recovering. I want to suggest that if you get the chance, please, write something positive to him on Twitter or VK to let him know our support, and remind him that his health is the most important thing!
by whitebamboo
11 Feb 2013, 17:26
 
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Re: Пресса о Жене, интервью Жени || Press about Evgeni ON Ic



Skater Plushenko hits back after Israeli surgery questioned: (AP)
http://www.timesofisrael.com/skater-plushenko-hits-back-after-israeli-surgery-questioned/


*sigh* I know I'm always sensitive and nit-picking English news reports about Evgeni...I have to say I really do not like the way this AP article is written. Frankly, I thin that someone who does not know Evgeni at all, reading only this piece, can very possibly draw the conclusion that there really are doubts about the reality of the operation. It's short, but for example, all it says about the actual operations is


coach Alexei Mishin later said he had disc-replacement surgery in Israel


There is no mention whatsoever of the pictures Yana posted, the name of the hospital which was clearly revealed, the Channel One news report, the interviews with the doctors. I find the omission rather noticeable in an article that is about this "controversy".

The article also doesn't quote anything of what Evgeni said, why he feels he needs to sue Zhurankov. The next paragraph in the article is


Some Israeli media questioned that claim, saying no patients named Plushenko could be found at local hospitals. During a weekend broadcast of the Four Continents tournament, Eurosport commentator Andrei Zhurankov noted the reports and said he suspected there was no operation.


Firstly, "some Israeli media" gives more substance to the one unsourced webpage than there really is. And to say that Zhurankov "noted the reports" makes it sound pretty innocent: for instance, the previous sentence in the article itself, "Some Israeli media questioned..." can also be said to be "noting the reports". And what Zhurankov said was actually far more unambiguous than "suspected", or as said earlier in the article, "expressed doubts": he said that he believed there was no operation. He might have used the words "I believe" (or similar), but it's far more than mere "doubts", and at least from the translations I've seen, I don't see how it can be interpreted that way.

And by the way, there's something else I didn't quite understand: how did the original claim that "no patients named Plushenko could be found at local hospitals" work, anyway? So some random person can just call up major hospitals in Israel and ask them "is Evgeni Plushenko having an operation with you", and such a question would be answered? Isn't that against all sorts of patient confidentiality laws? (I only made a cursory search online, but it seems Israel has them.) And how many hospitals there are in Israel (or let's be generous, and narrow it down to Tel Aviv), anyway? How can this person claim to have called them all?

---------------------------------

Also, I made myself read some of Zhurankov's interviews and other statements from these last few days. I'm just a distant outsider so I won't draw any conclusions about him (or at least not say them in public), but just those things he said themselves, I find a lot of them self-contradictory, really, really strange and kind of disturbing...For instance, in one sovsport.ru interview, he said he deliberated "baited" Plushenko, and that Evgeni's reaction is exactly what he wanted. In the same interview, he (bringing up this point by himself) complained that he gave Yana his phone number in Vancouver, but she did not call him. In another interview, he claims that he is actually a long-time Plushenko fan, quotes a two-sentence conversation he had with Evgeni 15 years ago, and said he's saying all this because "it is the cry of the soul, and I will not give up on him" :sh_ok: :sh_ok: :sh_ok:

I suspect all these things he said are actually advantageous to Evgeni, purely from the lawsuit point of view. Again, I'm just seeing this from a distance and as a fan, so I shouldn't say what Evgeni "should" do or not, but at this point, I really wonder if maybe it would be best if Evgeni does not allow himself to be provoked into any kind of public or private argument or even conversation with him at all, and in fact, do not have any contact with this person, or response to him, but just let the lawyers handle it.

Okay, well, I wasn't sure whether to say this, but to be completely honest, I'm even starting to wonder if Evgeni should not be a little more careful about his, and his family's, safety right now...I'm not saying that this person is any kind of real nutcase or would actually do anything, obviously I can't say that. Maybe I'm just being melodramatic and letting my imagination run away with me again, but it never hurts to be careful...
by whitebamboo
12 Feb 2013, 19:54
 
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